Midwest Pond and Koi Society

I am a new pond owner -- 6 months. Kalamazoo, MI. 780 gallons, non-filtered, but with 2 levels separated by a 2.5' rock waterfall and 4 ft streambed for aeration/filtration. 1 koi, 8-10 " by now, and 7 goldfish 3" - 6". 1 lotus, 2 water lilies, 1 pickerel rush, 1 parrot feather, 2 reeds in the short stream bed at the base of the waterfall, 2 huge taros and a couple of papyrus plants - the smaller kind upstairs. Water lettuce so healthy I've been culling and composting non-stop all summer. String alge, but nothing I can't live with. I may as well tell you I've never tested the water, though I have the chemicals to do it -- I have aquarium fish.

It is the best gardening I've ever done.

HOWEVER -- Those wretched goldfish spawned twice this summer and left me with what looked like (among all the plant life) literally 100s of fry.

QUESTION 1 -- How long would it take those babyfish to kill off my pond (i.e. other fish, plants), if I didn't do anything?

What I did to solve this problem (this might have been rash) was to catch a large-mouth bass of just-legal size (not big enough to eat the parental fish, although I have a couple of frogs I'm worried about) and introduce him to the pond.

QUESTIONS 2/3 -- Just how rash was that? Have I endangered my domestics?

The fry are gone, and I mean GONE after a week. My domestic fish, even the koi, who definitely has weight on the bass, if not length, are nervous and hiding behind the plants. They will come out and feed, but it takes them some time of me sitting there with the food floating. I have not seen the bass since I introduced him.

It seems obvious that I need to get the wild guy out, just to make the others happy. I thought about keeping him and giving him live bait for food, but that now seems like not such a good idea. But it does make me curious what other pond gardeners have done to control their goldfish population. I read the recommendation to pump into a pool, move your desireables, cull, etc. etc., but it seems just as stressfull to the fish and the plants as what I've done.

Context, observations, beratement, all would be welcome.

QUESTION 4 -- Is there an organization you are aware of that is closer to me than yours? are you a local or regional group?

majda (added 9-25-04)—See reply.

We became members on Sunday. just came back from the show and loved it...acknowledging "rule number one" we bought too many new fish. Fortunately we have a large (3000 gallon) pond with plenty of cirulation/filtration(6600pgm). What is the best way to sort/rid/screen our baby koi born this year? Many are ugly brown and we otherwise have too many. We have lotza plants so netting them is way too hard. Is it best to wait until fall when the plants are dying and the fish slowing down? I don't want to stress the others any more than necessary, so I'm hoping for some type of baby fish trap that only allows the small fish to enter, but not leave, and then i could sort/rid. Can't find any thing on the web... —See reply.

My husband and I have a small hilly farm in West Virginia. A few years ago we had two farm ponds made - a fairly large one (60' x 40'? a guess) and a smaller one (20' x 25' ?). We stocked them (with bad advice from a "consultant/supplier") with koi and goldfish. For the past 4 years or so, the pond has been very muddy and the banks are being chewed into, the damage is getting to be significant and we are concerned that in a few more years the "dam" side of the pond (catches runoff augmented by a small spring) will be weaken and break through. Neither pond has a liner. Reading your article points out that we probably shouldn't be trying to raise exotic fish in a wild setting, for the many reasons you mentioned.

We probably have around 15 large koi (16-18 "?) and numerous smaller koi. With them we have a number of small gold fish. The pond doesn't seem to be overpopulated, but it is difficult to know because the water is always muddy. We are only feeding them occasionally. We are not fish experts and don't really know the best step to take. We would be willing to have the fish removed and taken to a good/better home... —See reply.

Hi All. I saw your email address in the Midwest Koi and Pond Society web site. We are definitely at the "low end" of the intensity of Water Gardens, but have a problem this year that is threatening out entire population of Koi and Goldfish. We have Furunculosis (Hole In Side) based upon my very limited knowledge of koi diseases, and due to observations off various pictures of diseases off the web.

Briefly, it must have been due to the difficulties in keeping our water quality... it has been a large battle all year. No new fish introductions this year whatsoever. I've had horrible problem with Alge (Green water), as well as Ph fluctuations. Amonia and Disolved Nitrites have not been a problem this year (For the most part).

I have been testing (Ph, Salt, Amonia , etc.) and attempting to make non-radical corrections all year. including ~ 75% water replacement if extreme levels were observed. We have two outdoor "ponds" of roughly 125 gallons each.

We have been treating with "Tea Extract" bought from a local store, and running our salt content towards the "High Side" of recommended levels. This in some cases appears to be helping (appearing to reduce some of the ulcers", and most of the fish affected are extremely active in normal activity, however seem to have severely reduced appetites (floating food).

We have had fry this year in both tanks, with the larges fry now showing the disease. Our goldfish and koi (All about 6-10") are showing signs of the disease now, with at least 3 severe cases. ANY SUGGESTIONS on treatment (specifically in this region of the country... temperature, etc.) would be appreciated.

Since we are small scale hobbyists, we are not interested in "Expensive" treatment, and would put down the entire stock if there are no hopes, however most of the fish have been with us for about 4 years, and hence the request at any thoughts to save them.

Thanks in advance for any ideas. Please drop me an email to both my work email and home if any of you have time to respond.(Added 8/17/04) —See reply.

Hi Bob,
Thanks for answering. Are hair algae and string algae the same thing? The salt concentration reading I got was .02 and I guess it is supposed to be .10% . Would solar salt be ok to use for this? I can divert the water so it does not go into the pond, and I have pump and blossom head spray I can keep running to arreate the water. so this could be a closed system for as long as I wanted. I do have 2 small bundles of barley straw in now , but I guess it takes some time to work. Do you think I should add more salt? Also,. if I block out the sun, would this help? Thanks again for your help. If you don't like me sending you these questions, let me know!
Hal (Added 8/11/04) —See reply.

HI, I have a problem and am not sure what to do. My pond is 7' wide by 14' long and average depth is 3 &1/2 feet , containing about 2500 gallons. It is spring fed with water coming in over a waterfall and going out the overflow. I built it , with a rubber liner, a year ago and put in 6 Koi and 2 water lilies. Early this summer it was full of string algae, that kept rising to the top in mats.I had the bottom covered with fist sized stones and they were all covered. This was so bad I drained the pond, took out all the stones and cleaned them and the rubber liner and started over again. I filled the pond and yesterday, 2 weeks later added 10 water lilies, parrots feather, water cress, water lettuce and 10 Koi and 6 gold fish about 4" long. Now, today I notice the algae is starting to cover the stones and the sides!

I tested the water and the PH is 7.3, the Ammonia was 0, Nitrite was 0, salt level was 0.02% and water temp. is 55 degrees all the time. The pond is in full sun about two thirds of the day.

I don't want the algae to get ahead like it did before. Any help you can give me will surely will be appreciated. Thanks so much, Hal (Added 8/10/04) —See reply.

...Right now I have 2 large comet goldfish, 2 small comet goldfish and 6 Koi, approx. 4.5 inches long. I am keeping them for now in a 100 gallon tank outside with 80 gallons of water in it (down so they don't jump out).

I need to know how to make a home made Bio-Filter. Right now, all I have is a submersible pump with small filter on it, (filter is only two inches by 2 inches) that pumps the water from bottom of tank and back in a water fall at the top. 210 GPH pumped.

I give them a limited amount of three choices of goldfish food twice a day. I also clean the small filter daily and change 20% of the water daily. I also am adding 1.5 tablespoons of aquarium salt per 16 gallons of water changed daily although the carton says to use 3 tablespoons per 15 gallons. Salt is "Evaporated Sea Water", manufactured by "Aquarium Pharmaceuticals Inc". I also have 1/2 of tank covered for shade from hot sun. I keep reading about adding so much more salt? A lot more salt?

(1) Is it okay to change 20% of the water per day? They seem more happy since doing it and it is keeping the Algae under kind of control without using chemicals? Key words are KIND OF................

(2) Is it okay to use a minimal amount of aquarium salt all the time? I have been through Ich and Cotton disease before using it? Again they seem healthier now that I am using it?

(3) Could you tell me how to make a Bio-Filter cheaply?

(4) I live in northern Alberta, Canada. If I bring them in for the winter, they would be at house temperature, do I continue to feed them the same amount?

(5) If I placed them in an above ground 300 gallon tank and used floating tank heater (for livestock), would they be better off than in the house but cut back on feeding? And if cut back on feeding, by how much? They would not have any filter system if outside in the winter as the water fall would freeze?

(6) Does salt control fish parasites, worms, flukes, etc.? If not, do I treat them a couple of times a year for such parasites as they came from a Pet Store where other people say the fish come with such problems?

(7) I printed out any of your Questions and Answers pertaining to me. Two things that scare me. Question 19 states 1 inch of KOI per 20 to 25 gallons??? I understood when they were still small, it was 1 inch of fish per 1 gallon? Second was a Q and A that says Goldfish are okay wintering in an Aquarium but Koi shouldn't be??? They should be in a tub??? I really wanted to be able to enjoy them in an aquarium for the winter??? I thought a 77 gallon to a 90 gallon for this winter and hopefully the next. In the spring, I would relocate them to a 300 gallon horse tank??? (Added 8/4/04) —See reply.

Hello, I've set up my first pond and it is a small one. 100 gal. I'm having a problem with the green algae (pea soup). I've been using Pond Care Algae Fix at times double dose with little or no results. I've tried the water changes from doing only 10% to doing 60%. I do have some live plants with no fertilizer spikes.

The filter is one that can handle up to 450 gal. at one ft. high and is cleaned every 3-5 days. The fish are doing fine but I would like to see them more than at feeding time. I used to feed 2-3 times a day (very small amounts but have cut back to once a day ( larger amount). The pond is in mostly sun but now I have been putting up an umbrella to cut back on the sunlight to only late in the day. Still I can't see more than 3" into the pond.

I am on city water. Geneva, IL. HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Please (Added 8/3/04) —See reply.

We are building a new pond and want to line part (not all) of the edge with round wood posts like you see in Japanese garden ponds. My question is what type of wood is used? I know not to use treated lumber, as it will give off toxins. My pond will ultimately be 15,000 gallons.Also, how are the posts are installed? (Sent to Anderson Japanese Gardens. Added 7/14/04) —See reply.

Hello, I'm not a member, but have just found your website.
I have a small pond, approx. 250 gallons, with Shibunkin goldfish that I have had going for about 8 years. I have never had any major problems with my pond, or maintaining a healthy pond, even tho I am not well versed in the biology of it all.
My brother also has a smaller pond, and earlier this year all of his fish died off mysteriously. I had no answers for him, other than to check the nitrate levels, which were slightly elevated, but not bad. Now, all of of a sudden, about a third of my fish died, after about three days of non-movement in the water. They have been just sitting near the top, not gasping for air or anything, but just like they were sleeping. My pond looks normal for this time of year - just like it has looked for the past 7 or 8 years. I'm wondering if something external to the pond is going on, like aerial spraying for gypsy moths, etc. Have you heard of this happening anywhere else in the area?? I live in Woodridge, my brother lives in La Grange. (7/14/04) —See reply.

My pond is 12,000 gallons and is in full sun. Every year my water turns green and stays that way from July on with no visibility. I have a bio falls filter from Aquascape and a large sand filter with a u.v. light. A friend of mine says he will put in a bog (free of charge..can't beat the price). I can't keep any plants within the pond as Koi pull out as fast as I can plant. By the way, my pond does NOT have any shelves, just a straight drop off to 5 and 6 feet. I think a bog would be very helpful and a nice eye pleasing addition. my friend says he will put in IF I come up with the plan. I have looked thru back issues of the Newsletters and other litature available, but nothing on bogs. Bob, can you help me with advice as where I can find information for my size pond? Thanks A Bunch. (Added 5/25/04) —See reply.
(sent later)
Now I am so eager to get started, my poor "friend" has no idea what he volunteered for. One final question, and I promise not to "bug" you (at least for 24 hours). I have always said my U.V. light was not adequate, but my last pond guy always disagreed with me. Within the last 24 hours the light has burnt out and the unit is leaking a good amount of water. Great timing! As now is the time to replace the entire unit. For my volume of water (12,000 gallons) what size unit do you recommend?(Added 5/25/04) —See reply.

HELP! Can you all put your heads together for a minute or two and offer some suggestions as to why I have gold/amber/brownish colored water? I realize that you don't have any details to base your opinion on---but give me some ideas on what could cause it.
Please.
Briefly, the pond is about 6 years old. Aprox 4000 gal. average of 4 ft deep. Last year the water turned this color for the first time. I pressure wash the pond spring and fall. Water changes during the season. Most people tell me it is the filter media used, so I changed it. I went from small pea gravel to the long strands of plastic ribbon, now I am trying the kitty litter in baskets. After cleaning this spring, things started to look better, even though there was a slight amber color to the water I could actually see my fish throughout the whole pond. However over the last 2 weeks it has reverted back to golden/brown and I can no longer see the bottom of the pond. Any guesses? I am getting so frustrated that I am about ready to fill the thing in and have a really nice rock garden--with expensive fertilizer. I will appreciate any ideas or thoughts that you have. Thanks so much! (Added 5/14/09) —See reply.

We are relatively new members of the MPKS and have a question about our new pond. The surface area is 25 X 50. Last night the pond was filled to just below the skimmer overflows, all the pumps were running so all the waterfalls were working. This morning the water level is 4-5 inches below our marker rocks. One skimmer is getting ready to suck air. What is the evaporation rate for this size pond in this area that might result in this much of a water level decrease or do we have a leak? I hope you can help us out. I can't see adding this much water to this pond every day. (Added 5/13/09) —See reply.

I own a small par 3 golf course in Delavan, Wi. and have a small retention pond that I can fill with a well or rainwater. The retention pond feeds my watering system on the course. It fills with algae and is located right next to my parking lot and becomes a eyesore. Keeping in mind that I water the course with this water, is there anything I can do to kill the algae??? This time of year I have considered putting weed killer in the water and water the course for the broadleaf weeds. Just kidding. Any help would be appreciated. (Added 5/11/09) —See reply.

...First, why can't I keep any of my water plants alive? I have a filtration system that has the regular old white filter and a charcoal filter.

Second, I have been using algicide blocks(cubes), yet I still have tons of algae.

And finally, I love my backyard pond (and fish), but I just don't think I know enough about it to keep it healthy. Can you suggest a good book to get me going on the right track as far as learning the basics (i.e., how often to empty and re-fill, when to add salt, etc.)?

I don't know if you need the stats on the pond itself, but, just in case: ~4ft deep (with 3 shelves around the perimeter at ~2ft deep), 3x5ft (WxL). It sits in FULL SUN (hence the algae problem). —See reply.