Midwest Pond and Koi Society

I've got more than a few questions. I read with great interest the Q and A's and the articles by Mike White. I'm going to redo my front yard waterfall pond (no fish 4,000 gals) and my back yard pond now about 1,500 gals expanding to about 3,000 (10 Koi, 3 1ft and the rest 8in).

Back yard (Koi pond) I have a homemade upflow in the back that is fed from a skimmer. the pump I have is in the bottom of the skimmer and I think because I have an inefficient upflow (yes with lava rock!) the pump clogged to regularly for my tastes. The pond at this time is also just two feet deep. I intent to redig and get down to four feet this spring. I'm tired of being concerned that the Heron are going to find my back yard pond too. That is actually why I built the backyard pond. I have it very quiet with just the water from the upflow dumping right back into the pond--no water fall noise! I have a great waterfall in the front and in very plain view for all flying overhead and they sure did eat well!

#1 — Very good articles by Mike White! Bottom line what type of filtration should I good with. Mike says nothing is perfect, I'm leaning to the verticle pads with brushes? Seems to be the most efficient (although I know not perfect). What would you do? If this seems like the best, what brand? Where is the best place to purchase?

#2 — I was thinking of looking into becoming a contractor (Company name) to get better pricing. Is this even worthwhile? Are there better prices out there for contractors?

#3 — Another reason I was going to go to four feet deep was the oppurtunity to place a center drain. I hadn't done that and it sure seems to be worthwhile for overall circulation and filtration. Is it? Is punching a hole in the liner a risk in the Wisconsin climate at 4 ft? Something that is 15 ft by 5 ft should I go with two bottom drains at that length? Do the drains come with a plug or cork type seal for winter to keep the water out of the piping to prevent potenially bursting?

#4 — If I go with a center drain, what about a leaf basket in-line but outside of the pond to catch debris and make it easy to cleanout from the center drain run? If I go with a center drain, do I really need a skimmer? Wouldn't that center drain and leaf catcher really attract everything from the surface? or is that just not enough suction to retrieve everything?

#5 — Where best (prices) to get a liner? I'm going to have to get two! 45 mil?

Now for the front pond! Sorry for the long questions but I'm really trying to plan my spring repairs now and be comfortable with a good plan!

#1 — I need to place a new liner in the front as well. The front of the pond is only 15 feet away from the edge of the road. I don't want the front yard pond to be more than two feet deep. Parents and their Kids have a way of walking up and I don't want drowning to be an issue. I've certainly seen many times that just the younger kids walk up by themselves as well. Mike White recommends oval for the best circulation and I can reform it a bit to get that shape. The form will be about 15ft oval or rounded.

#2 — the front pond pump is 7,000 gal an hour. It's a great waterfall!! That is a great amount of suction from a center drain! Again I was thinking that will that amound of suction into a center drain would I really need skimmers?

#3 — I certainly don't want to run a second pump for filtration. How would I do the filtration. Tap from the center drain with an in-line filter at about 2,000 gallons and then have that reroute back into the waterfall as well. I sure don't want to run the 7,000 24hours. Or, should I just plan on running a second pump that 24/7 and continue to timer the 7,000?

#4 — Do you think two center drains or would one be enough in a 15 ft round? I would go from about 12ins at the edge to about 24 to 30 inchs max sloped to the center. I was thinking of lily pads to keep it as shaded as possible. It's pretty much full sun in the front.
(Added 1-30-05) —See Bob Passovoy's reply.
(Added 2-19-05) —See Mike White's reply.

My husband and I are having a big discussion over this one! We are building a KOI Pond in our yard and it will be about 3,000 to 3,500 gallons. In order to know exactly what size it is we want to use a water meter while filling it. Our water pressure is a little low so he wants to use two water hoses connected to different water faucets. Can we use 2 hoses at the same time with a meter, maybe using a Y connection? Will this be an accurate reading or will the Y change the accuracy of the meter? (Added 1-30-05) —See reply.

(Part 2) Thank you for the insight. Just what I expected from you (based on what those have said). However, now you have me wanting more...

After some thought, I have realized that perhaps my problem with algae (string in stream and a fine dust-like algae on the bottom of pool) is not the filtration but rather the material causing the wicked chain...excess food, decaying material like leaves and fish waste.

If I have algae growing and clear water, could increasing my filtration actually cause a bigger problem by allowing more bacteria to take up residence in the bio filter producing higher nitrogen levels and therefore creating a greater algae utopia?

I'm sure I am missing something but it appears that the fish (both koi and goldfish) sure have enjoyed this environment because they have successfully spawned numerous times during the second year of having the pond. Many ponds that I have seen on the tour (and just visiting) may have a more algae free appearance (being able to see no algae on the bottom or on the rocks), however should I count my blessings (and those of the parent fish) and leave well enough alone?

Now I'm getting confused. This is such a chicken/egg dilemma. Please help me make more sense. (Added 1-6-05) —See reply.

(Part 1) I am taking the winter months to plan a remodeling of my homemade filtration system. I'm considering switching to bio balls from lava rock because I feel it has not been providing the maximum filtration. Can you provide any insight into if the size of the bio balls used will make a difference (1" or 1.25") or will it end up providing the same surface area because of additional smaller balls in the same filter space? Additionally, approximately how many I should use (I know there has to be some sort of formula).

The demographics on my pond are approximately:

~5700 total gallons
~5125 in main pool for koi and goldfish (remaining gallons in collecting pools and stream)
6-8 larger sized fish (ranging in size 10" - 14")
8-10 medium sized fish (6" - 8")
8-10 smaller sized fish (1" - 5")

(Added 1-6-05) —See reply.

Hi Bob:

I have subscribed to the Water Gardening Magazine for the last several years. I belong to the Capital Area Koi and Water Gardening Club in Lansing, Michigan.

I have had a pond with goldfish for about 30 years. I joined the Lansing Pond Club about 6 years ago and acquired koi. I had water lilies in the pond from the beginning.
I have a albino catfish who is approximately 20 inches long and alot of koi who are approximately 16 inches long. And some goldfish.

We put a new pond in this summer (about 2500 gallons) with a falls and stream as the smaller one was getting quite crowded and I didn't want to get rid of any fish. I also have a filter system made from a 100 gallon horse tank, will have two next summer (got the pond in late this summer).

I know everyone has different experiences with their koi ponds. I wondered what your idea was on keeping the filter and pump running in the winter. I had alway shut the pump off in the old pond and used a small pump to keep a hole open for air.

Thanks for listening. Any ideas are welcome.
Sincerely,
Marilyn (Added 1-6-05)—See reply.

Thank you for your e-mail and advice. We finally "completed" our work in progress pond! It is sitting at approx. 1500 gallons for main pond and approx. 150-200 for secondary, not counting boxes, which should give it an additional 100 gals?! Ahh close enough anyway! Once we get everything settle I will be joining the Koi Society hopefully maybe by summer's end next year!

1) We actually decided to use a compound system of several components. We have an upper pond of about 3 1/2 feet long by 3 feet wide by 17 inch deep. We have a Tetra Bio Filter for ponds up to 2500 gallons, with 4000 gph pump (on top of liner on bottom). We have a skimmer box with 1500 gph pump and a filter tub with pads. For piping we choose 2 inch all the way around top increase flow, but also not flow too much (none of my fish are small anyway). In total there are two water falls, one for the filter tub dropping into the upper pond, and one for upper pond to lower main pond.

2) I am purchasing a UV light next spring for the bio filter we loving call R2D2, but wanted to know if it is worth the 200+ dollars? I wanted to know is charcoal bags really worth it? One article said yes 7.5 LB bag per 1000 gal pond another says it is a waste of money?! I was considering putting them in along with pads in the filter tub (skimmer box system).

3) Plant suggestions? We are going with water hyacinths, cat tails, lettuce, and some lilies. My mom loves the grass so we might try some in the pond, but room is an issue sooner or later. Is there some must haves?? We have no bog FYI & can't install one.

4) Currently we stock about 9 fishes ranging in size, but the largest ones are koi ranging 20 inch, 18, 22, all koi. We do have two smaller koi, which range in the 9 - 14 inch size. I also have two larger goldfish probably 6-8 inches each. The hope of the goldfish was to clean and eating debris. Is it necessary to have more gold fish? Some snails? A catfish? Or is this a pretty good ratio and system as is. Bearing in mind are current pond size, and the size of our fish, is the pond at max capacity still? Do I have room for more fish? I would like a few more koi, but am afraid my koi will be enticed to grow substantially bigger now that they have a bigger home, thus making it impossible?! I know gold fish do that at least... I don't want to entice breading, is there a way to prevent it? I like having control on how many and what kinds! I like playing god in my pond a little!

The pond cannot be increased in size anymore, as we took up half are back yard in this creation. So, as a result I can't have a problem like we had before, I am forced to learn from my lesson(s), and am now making sure I will be okay this time around!

5) Rocks?! We have none at the bottom or in the pond, all are currently on the outside. This was by what my mom says your suggestion? Is this correct, I wanted a double check and make sure it was a good way to do it?

6) I like tetra products for chemicals such as koi vital, which I had to use a lot previously to maintain some balance in are old pond! In the new pond will I need to use these as much? Should I try to avoid the use? Is there better? Is there a rule of thumb?

7) My mom wants to not have to clean the filters and such every week, ideally once a month would be nice.

With our previous pond she was doing it twice - three times a week, which drove her nuts, and made her make me get a shovel for the new pond!! She blames me entirely since I own the fish! :)

8) All in all it took us the best part of 5 full days to complete the pond manually digging and finishing everything ourselves. I must note it really does take up half of our back yard now and looks really good, but my back still hurts from all of the digging!
(Added 1-6-05) —See reply.

My pond is a .210 gallon in ground pond it has one large water lily. The fish are 2 koi and 6 6 inch comets. my pumps are a 210 gallon an hour with no filtration and a 535 gallon in a box filter . and i change the water every 2 to 3 weeks and the water will stay clear for a bout a week or so than it goes back to beening pea soup green. i have read all the books i can get an it confuse me on what type of filtration I should have What do you think i should do i have been think of buying one of those box filters with uv i saw in doctor fosters catalog .(Added 1-6-05) —See reply

(Continuation of an earlier question)-- Thanks for the well wishes. I took the whole pond apart (15 tons of boulders tossed up on the perimeter of the pond), this past weekend leaving only the gravel in the bottom (6 tones of Alabama pebbles). There surely was a leak - a couple in fact, ripped from the heavy boulders rolled into place under the waterfall. When I rolled the liner back, I noticed that I was able to stick my finger into the moist clay like Jell-O, where as the rest of the pond area was dry and hard so i concentrated on poking my fingers up the wall until the clay/dirt was harder and translated that to the liner and narrowed down the area to located the tear in the liner. I also noticed a build up of water under the liner leaving an ever moving water bubble to work around. The water actually came in handy as I able to move the water bubble around looking for springs to spurt up had there been a hole on the bottom. No holes. We patched the 1/4 - 1/2 rips on both sides of the liner and quadrupled lined the area where the heavy boulders would be placed and replaced all the stones. With both garden hoses running for five and half hours I was able to get the pond running again and as of last night to now, have not noticed a drop in the water level.

It was a lot of work, but the assurances that it was done right from the mistakes learned will leave to many years of enjoyment. All that is left is tucking the liner properly and landscaping.

Thanks again for your advice. It was not fun building the pond twice - by I'll chalk it up to "lesson learned" - the hard way.
(added 1-6-05) —See reply.

I have been checking on the internet on ways to prevent a large blue heron from eating my koi. I was told the best solution would be to put a Heron Decoy in the pond but I am reading this is not the solution. My pond is 35' x 70' and approximately 3-4 ft. deep in the center. The koi tend to hide in the center at times but this Heron seems to be just waiting. Last year (my pond was new) I had put 3 koi (about 7" in size) in my pond to see how they would do. After about 3 weeks they were gone. This year I was given three new koi and they are doing great and have had about 20 babies. The pond is large enough to handle the number of koi but I am on the constant lookout for the Heron.

What is the best decoy for Heron?

Thanks for your help! (added 1-6-05)—See reply.

Hi- we have a 75 gallon outdoor pond and we have a turtle instead of fish -- we somehow have gotten leeches in the pond and need some guidance to find out how to get the pond leech free - can you help me? thanks (added 1-6-05)—See reply.