Hi to you all! My name is Tom and I've had two ponds in Oak Creek , Wi (South end of Milwaukee County about 10 blocks off of I-94 and Ryan Rd, boardering Mitchell Airport on the north end of our city). I've had the front yard pond for 8 years and the backyard for about 4. I too have built, rebuilt expanded (from one to two) tried, tested, failed and have had neighbors laugh at my ever expanding "hobby! They think I'm an idiot for spending so much time with it but they sure like the results next door to them! By the way, my wife althought she loves the landscaping is starting to be concerned about what seems to be ever expanding idieas and continued investment of my time and money. I don't blame her!

I have just read Koi World and water gardens (2004-05) and saw your website. I have read everything on the site and I sure wish I found you guys sooner!! Oh well, just another error on my part. I've talked to area folks but sure haven't gotten the great guidance in these past years that reading your website has given me in a day.

I've got more than a few questions. I read with great interest the Q and A's and the articles by Mike White. I'm going to redo my front yard waterfall pond (no fish 4,000 gals) and my back yard pond now about 1,500 gals expanding to about 3,000 (10 Koi, 3 1ft and the rest 8in).

Back yard (Koi pond) I have a homemade upflow in the back that is fed from a skimmer. the pump I have is in the bottom of the skimmer and I think because I have an inefficient upflow (yes with lava rock!) the pump clogged to regularly for my tastes. The pond at this time is also just two feet deep. I intent to redig and get down to four feet this spring. I'm tired of being concerned that the Heron are going to find my back yard pond too. That is actually why I built the backyard pond. I have it very quiet with just the water from the upflow dumping right back into the pond--no water fall noise! I have a great waterfall in the front and in very plain view for all flying overhead and they sure did eat well!

#1 — Very good articles by Mike White! Bottom line what type of filtration should I good with. Mike says nothing is perfect, I'm leaning to the verticle pads with brushes? Seems to be the most efficient (although I know not perfect). What would you do? If this seems like the best, what brand? Where is the best place to purchase?

#2 — I was thinking of looking into becoming a contractor (Company name) to get better pricing. Is this even worthwhile? Are there better prices out there for contractors?

#3 — Another reason I was going to go to four feet deep was the oppurtunity to place a center drain. I hadn't done that and it sure seems to be worthwhile for overall circulation and filtration. Is it? Is punching a hole in the liner a risk in the Wisconsin climate at 4 ft? Something that is 15 ft by 5 ft should I go with two bottom drains at that length? Do the drains come with a plug or cork type seal for winter to keep the water out of the piping to prevent potenially bursting?

#4 — If I go with a center drain, what about a leaf basket in-line but outside of the pond to catch debris and make it easy to cleanout from the center drain run? If I go with a center drain, do I really need a skimmer? Wouldn't that center drain and leaf catcher really attract everything from the surface? or is that just not enough suction to retrieve everything?

#5 — Where best (prices) to get a liner? I'm going to have to get two! 45 mil?

Now for the front pond! Sorry for the long questions but I'm really trying to plan my spring repairs now and be comfortable with a good plan!

#1 — I need to place a new liner in the front as well. The front of the pond is only 15 feet away from the edge of the road. I don't want the front yard pond to be more than two feet deep. Parents and their Kids have a way of walking up and I don't want drowning to be an issue. I've certainly seen many times that just the younger kids walk up by themselves as well. Mike White recommends oval for the best circulation and I can reform it a bit to get that shape. The form will be about 15ft oval or rounded.

#2 — the front pond pump is 7,000 gal an hour. It's a great waterfall!! That is a great amount of suction from a center drain! Again I was thinking that will that amound of suction into a center drain would I really need skimmers?

#3 — I certainly don't want to run a second pump for filtration. How would I do the filtration. Tap from the center drain with an in-line filter at about 2,000 gallons and then have that reroute back into the waterfall as well. I sure don't want to run the 7,000 24hours. Or, should I just plan on running a second pump that 24/7 and continue to timer the 7,000?

#4 — Do you think two center drains or would one be enough in a 15 ft round? I would go from about 12ins at the edge to about 24 to 30 inchs max sloped to the center. I was thinking of lily pads to keep it as shaded as possible. It's pretty much full sun in the front.

Dr. Bob--Thanks in advance for any and all advice you can provide. A new member to be! Tom

Sorry it has taken me so long to get back to you. Sounds like you have some projects ahead of you. Let me get right to your questions.

1. It sounds like you are leaning toward the HydroMax filter by Emperor Aquatics. This is a good filter but I think the container is a little weak and can distort in the sun. You might want to look at the Big Sister by Patio Ponds LLD. It is more money but well worth the cost difference. It is constructed using a fiberglass container. With the pads laying down with a down flow design and brush chamber.

2. Are you going to be a contractor or are you just trying to get better pricing. If you can get manufactures to sell direct to you can get better pricing but most won't. Most are going to check you out before selling to you and unless you have a business it probably won't be worth your time and effort to set one up for this project only.

3. One bottom drain will be plenty for this size pond. As far as the piping goes and freezing this is easy to solve. The easiest way is to trap air in the line going to the bottom drain and it won't freeze. Tetra makes a very good bottom drain that work good for you.

4. I would go with the bottom drain and skimmer. I would use an external pump that is connected to both devices.

5. I sell 45 mil EDPM liner for $.72 per sq. ft. cut and $.66 per sq. ft. for full rolls. Then I give a 15% discount on all non sale items to club members.

1. The design was for a prefect koi pond and I agree with Bob in that it is boring and manmade looking. With that said in the front I would go with something more attractive.

2. Go with the skimmer first and the bottom drain second.

3. If the fish population is as low as I think it might be you won't need much of a filter. If you are putting a filter on it than run it 24/7.

4. If you put one bottom drain in the front pond that would be plenty.

Tom, I hope that I have answered some of your questions and I might suggest that at some point this spring that you visit my shop. If you think of coming down here give me a call so I can be at the shop to talk with you and go over all the possibilities with you.

-- Mike White
White Water Filters
23 N. Water Street, Batavia, IL 60510 630-406-9330
fax: 630-406-9227
mikew@whitewaterfilters.com